00;00;00;00 - 00;00;07;10 Speaker 1 All right. Welcome, welcome. Get ready. Because today we're doing a deep dive, specifically into building health care software. 00;00;07;11 - 00;00;10;20 Speaker 2 That's right. We're looking at MVP's minimum viable product. 00;00;10;20 - 00;00;24;10 Speaker 1 Exactly those, you know, first versions, getting the core stuff out there fast. And we've got some great sources today. There's a guide on best practices, a really need how to on human centered design HCD. 00;00;24;12 - 00;00;26;21 Speaker 2 Yeah, focused on small teams, which is useful. 00;00;26;22 - 00;00;31;20 Speaker 1 Totally. And also a, a crisp executive summary pulling it all together. 00;00;31;23 - 00;00;33;14 Speaker 2 So the goal here, the. 00;00;33;14 - 00;00;42;14 Speaker 1 Goal is by the end of this, you won't just know what a health care MVP is, but really why it's so critical and importantly, how to actually build one effectively and. 00;00;42;14 - 00;00;44;27 Speaker 2 Why it's well, just different in health care. It really. 00;00;44;27 - 00;00;47;15 Speaker 1 Is. Yeah. You jumped right in there. That's the core issue isn't it? 00;00;47;15 - 00;00;58;14 Speaker 2 Absolutely. I mean, you're not just building, I don't know, another photo sharing app. Lives can literally be on the line. So it's this constant balancing act. You need to innovate, get solutions out quickly. 00;00;58;17 - 00;01;03;22 Speaker 1 But you have all these regulations, safety concerns. Yeah. Compliance. It's intense. 00;01;03;22 - 00;01;12;22 Speaker 2 Super intense. How do you move fast without, you know, breaking things, especially when things could mean patient safety or data privacy. 00;01;12;23 - 00;01;14;12 Speaker 1 Feels like walking a tightrope. Yeah, it. 00;01;14;12 - 00;01;22;07 Speaker 2 Definitely can feel that way. But that's really where the combination of human centered design, HCD, and agile development comes in. 00;01;22;07 - 00;01;24;00 Speaker 1 Okay, the magic combo pretty much. 00;01;24;00 - 00;01;29;08 Speaker 2 They're not just buzzwords. They're the, the framework, the tools that let you navigate that complexity. 00;01;29;10 - 00;01;38;17 Speaker 1 All right. So let's unpack HCD first or how to guide it breaks down nicely. Five steps. And it all kicks off with understanding the users deeply. 00;01;38;17 - 00;01;45;22 Speaker 2 And that's key. We're talking doctors nurses patients maybe even caregivers. Yeah. Whoever touches this thing. 00;01;45;22 - 00;01;48;29 Speaker 1 And understanding isn't just like sending out a survey is it? 00;01;49;00 - 00;01;55;07 Speaker 2 Oh definitely not. I mean, surveys have their place, but empathy here is deeper. The guide talks about, shadowing a nurse. 00;01;55;09 - 00;01;57;16 Speaker 1 Oh, wow. Like following them on their shift. 00;01;57;16 - 00;02;05;17 Speaker 2 Exactly. See how they actually use technology or struggle with it in their real, often chaotic workflow. Imagine the insights you'd get. 00;02;05;23 - 00;02;10;03 Speaker 1 That would be incredible. Far beyond what you'd get from just asking questions. 00;02;10;03 - 00;02;15;18 Speaker 2 Totally invaluable. So that's empathy then. Step two is define define. 00;02;15;18 - 00;02;18;05 Speaker 1 So taking all those observations yeah. 00;02;18;06 - 00;02;23;00 Speaker 2 All that raw data and turning it into a clear problem statement, something actionable. 00;02;23;00 - 00;02;28;28 Speaker 1 Like the example they gave. How might we help a clinician document care without breaking their flow. 00;02;29;02 - 00;02;37;07 Speaker 2 Perfect example. It frames the problem from the user's perspective. It's not just build documentation software, it's solve this specific user problem. 00;02;37;08 - 00;02;40;06 Speaker 1 Got it okay. Empathy. Define then 80. 00;02;40;06 - 00;02;48;09 Speaker 2 Eight ideate brainstorming time. Get the team together. Think wide sketch ideas. No bad ideas at this stage. Really get. 00;02;48;09 - 00;02;49;29 Speaker 1 Those creative juices flowing. 00;02;50;01 - 00;02;51;11 Speaker 2 And then you move to prototype. 00;02;51;11 - 00;02;54;04 Speaker 1 Making it real, but like, not too real. 00;02;54;04 - 00;03;04;19 Speaker 2 Yeah, exactly. Keep it simple. We're talking clickable mockups, maybe using tools like Figma or something similar. Not fully coded software, just enough to test the core idea, the flow. 00;03;04;19 - 00;03;06;26 Speaker 1 Okay, so you build the basic version of the idea. 00;03;06;27 - 00;03;09;12 Speaker 2 Yeah. And that leads directly to the final step test. 00;03;09;12 - 00;03;12;26 Speaker 1 Right. Get it in front of actual users. Those nurses those patients. 00;03;12;26 - 00;03;19;28 Speaker 2 Yeah. And watch see where they click, where they get confused, what they like, what they hate. This feedback, it's absolute gold. 00;03;19;29 - 00;03;23;27 Speaker 1 Because it tells you if you're actually on the right track before you spend ages coding. 00;03;23;27 - 00;03;34;20 Speaker 2 Precisely. It's this cycle, this loop. Empathize, define, ideate, prototype, test. And you might loop back refine the idea test again. It's iterative. 00;03;34;20 - 00;03;46;26 Speaker 1 Constantly learning, constantly refining, making sure you're building the right thing. Okay. So that covers the HCD part, the human centered angle. But what about agile? How does that piece fit into this whole health care puzzle? 00;03;46;27 - 00;03;56;06 Speaker 2 Right. Agile. So agile is more about how you build. It's a development methodology. The core idea is working in short focused cycles. They're called sprints. 00;03;56;06 - 00;03;58;06 Speaker 1 Sprints like short bursts of work. 00;03;58;06 - 00;04;05;23 Speaker 2 Exactly. Usually maybe 2 to 4 weeks long. Yeah. In each sprint, the team builds a small, potentially shippable piece of the software. 00;04;05;23 - 00;04;06;29 Speaker 1 This one feature a part of. 00;04;06;29 - 00;04;15;17 Speaker 2 One could be something manageable. And crucially, at the end of each sprint, you test it, you get feedback, and then you plan the next sprint based on that learning. 00;04;15;17 - 00;04;19;27 Speaker 1 So it's like building a house brick by brick, rather than trying to build the whole thing at once. 00;04;20;03 - 00;04;25;29 Speaker 2 That's a great analogy. Yeah. You lay a few bricks, Chuck. They're solid and straight, then lay the next to you. 00;04;26;00 - 00;04;30;12 Speaker 1 And a sources mentioned this is really vital in health care because things change so fast right? 00;04;30;12 - 00;04;41;25 Speaker 2 Oh, absolutely. Think about it. New medical research comes out, regulations change, technology evolves, user needs shift. Health care is incredibly dynamic. 00;04;41;25 - 00;04;43;17 Speaker 1 So you need a way to adapt quickly. 00;04;43;17 - 00;04;53;17 Speaker 2 Agile gives you that flexibility. You're not locked into a rigid monthlong plan. You can pivot, adjust, incorporate new requirements where feedbacks sprint by sprint. 00;04;53;22 - 00;05;03;25 Speaker 1 Okay, so HCD helps you figure out the right thing to build by understanding users. And agile helps you build the thing right iteratively and adaptively. 00;05;03;25 - 00;05;05;12 Speaker 2 You got it. That's the essence. 00;05;05;12 - 00;05;12;07 Speaker 1 But how do they actually work together. Combining them sounds complex like trying to manage two different processes at once. 00;05;12;12 - 00;05;18;07 Speaker 2 Yeah it can seem that way. But there's a really smart approach mentioned in the sources called dual track agile dual track. 00;05;18;07 - 00;05;18;28 Speaker 1 Okay. Tell me more. 00;05;19;02 - 00;05;28;25 Speaker 2 Imagine two parallel tracks running simultaneously. One track is the discovery track. That's your HCD work. User research, prototyping, testing ideas. 00;05;28;27 - 00;05;29;26 Speaker 1 Oh, the learning track. 00;05;29;26 - 00;05;36;22 Speaker 2 Exactly. The other track is the delivery track. That's your agile development team building the software in sprints. 00;05;36;25 - 00;05;38;23 Speaker 1 I see, so they run side by side. Yep. 00;05;38;26 - 00;05;50;24 Speaker 2 And crucially, they constantly inform each other. Insights from the discovery track what users need. What designs work feed directly into the delivery tracks backlog, deciding what gets built next. 00;05;50;24 - 00;05;56;09 Speaker 1 So the developers are always working on features that have already been validated, at least to some extent with users. 00;05;56;09 - 00;06;05;29 Speaker 2 Pretty much. And feedback from the delivery track, like technical challenges or performance data, can inform the discovery track about what's feasible or what needs more research. It's a continuous. 00;06;05;29 - 00;06;10;18 Speaker 1 Loop that makes so much sense. It's not HD than agile, it's HD and agile working in tandem. 00;06;10;23 - 00;06;16;22 Speaker 2 Exactly. It ensures that every development sprint is grounded in real user needs and also technical reality. 00;06;16;25 - 00;06;22;08 Speaker 1 And the executive summary really hits this point home. This approach significantly minimizes the risk. 00;06;22;12 - 00;06;28;08 Speaker 2 Huge risk reduction. You're much less likely to build something nobody actually wants or can use effectively. 00;06;28;08 - 00;06;32;16 Speaker 1 Which saves time, saves money, avoids those painful big redesigns later on. 00;06;32;17 - 00;06;36;00 Speaker 2 Definitely you bake in user validation from the very beginning. 00;06;36;01 - 00;06;41;15 Speaker 1 Okay, theories? Great. But let's talk real world. Yeah the sauce is actually give a couple of cool case studies didn't they. 00;06;41;16 - 00;06;48;14 Speaker 2 They did. Yeah really good examples of this HCD plus agile approach in action. 00;06;48;14 - 00;06;50;03 Speaker 1 There was improve. What was that one. 00;06;50;03 - 00;06;58;06 Speaker 2 Again improve is it's a platform designed to help breast cancer patients. It lets them report their symptoms and side effects directly. 00;06;58;07 - 00;07;00;19 Speaker 1 Oh wow. Patient reported outcomes. 00;07;00;19 - 00;07;11;24 Speaker 2 Exactly. And by collecting that data systematically using a tool designed with patient input, it helps the care team understand what's really going on and provide better, more timely support. 00;07;11;28 - 00;07;14;25 Speaker 1 That sounds incredibly impactful. Truly human centered. 00;07;14;25 - 00;07;18;28 Speaker 2 Totally. And then there was the other one, the ADHD caregiver support app. 00;07;18;28 - 00;07;20;12 Speaker 1 Right. Supporting the supporters. 00;07;20;19 - 00;07;32;23 Speaker 2 Yeah. Imagine being a caregiver for someone with ADHD. It comes with unique daily challenges. This app aimed to provide practical tools, resources, and maybe coping strategies. 00;07;32;23 - 00;07;37;03 Speaker 1 All designed based on understanding what those caregivers actually need day to day. 00;07;37;03 - 00;07;44;12 Speaker 2 Precisely developed iteratively, likely testing different features with caregivers along the way using that dual track approach. 00;07;44;12 - 00;07;52;28 Speaker 1 These are fantastic examples. They really show how this methodology isn't just academic, it leads to genuinely meaningful solutions in health care. 00;07;52;29 - 00;07;57;18 Speaker 2 It absolutely does. It bridges the gap between need and technology effectively. 00;07;57;22 - 00;08;01;13 Speaker 1 So let's let's try to wrap this up. Key takeaways for everyone listening. 00;08;01;15 - 00;08;07;12 Speaker 2 Well, first building software for health care. It's just different higher stakes complex environment. You can't just wing it. 00;08;07;15 - 00;08;14;19 Speaker 1 Definitely not. And number two that combination of HCD and agile is incredibly powerful for navigating that complexity. 00;08;14;19 - 00;08;16;20 Speaker 2 Right? HCD ensures you're building the right. 00;08;16;20 - 00;08;19;22 Speaker 1 Thing and agile ensures you're building the thing right adaptively. 00;08;19;22 - 00;08;27;20 Speaker 2 And third, it's all about iteration, constant learning, constant refinement driven by user feedback. It's not a one and done process. 00;08;27;23 - 00;08;32;25 Speaker 1 Not at all. Okay, so final thought to leave everyone with. 00;08;32;27 - 00;08;42;03 Speaker 2 Well, we focused a lot on software obviously, but these principles and agile thinking, they go way beyond code, don't they? 00;08;42;03 - 00;08;43;21 Speaker 1 That's true. How so? 00;08;43;24 - 00;09;08;22 Speaker 2 Think about any health care challenge, maybe one you face personally or see in the system. It could be improving appointment scheduling, making hospital stays less stressful. Better health education. Yeah. How could you apply that cycle? Understand the people involved. Define the core problem. Brainstorm ideas, prototype solutions, test them out. Even if the solution isn't software. Maybe it's a process change or a communication strategy. 00;09;08;25 - 00;09;14;00 Speaker 1 That's a really interesting angle. Applying HCD and agile thinking to health care problems more broadly. 00;09;14;06 - 00;09;15;14 Speaker 2 Something to ponder, maybe? 00;09;15;21 - 00;09;19;19 Speaker 1 Definitely something to ponder. Fantastic. Well, thanks so much for diving deep into this with me today. 00;09;19;19 - 00;09;21;10 Speaker 2 My pleasure. It's fascinating stuff. 00;09;21;11 - 00;09;24;10 Speaker 1 It really is. And thanks to all of you for joining us on this deep dive.